In this cybernetic episode, Daniel Hafner, Founder of Dapper Mobile Apps, shares his journey of turning ideas into digital solutions, the impact of the no-code movement, and the future of app creation with Dapper Mobile Apps.
You will discover:
– What to do before and after you app goes live
– How B2C businesses can benefit from the App Store and when B2B businesses should consider having an app
– What a stale app is and why it’s so important for you to avoid it
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the secrets of the high demand coach podcast. And I am here with yet another high demand coach in a very unique and super, super interesting way. You’ll find out what that means here in just a second. But with us today is the one and only Daniel Hafner, who is the founder and creative behind dapper mobile apps, a no code app and software development firm launched in 2020. Amidst the time of global upheavally carved a unique path in the tech landscape by making app development accessible to everyone through innovative no code solutions known for his independent thinking and a refreshing take on technology and media, he successfully led dapper mobile apps to emerge as a guiding light for entrepreneurs and businesses eager to dive into the digital realm without the conventional coding hurdles, and he’s here with us today. Dan, out of the gate, there seems to be, to me, at least kind of two kinds of apps in the App Store. There are the ones that no one uses right? That Don’t, don’t make a ton of money. And then there’s the Instagrams and the Netflix’s and the BBC News and all these that use all the time by everyone, it seems like. And those companies invest enormous budgets into their apps, despite the fact that some of them look like they’re still from the 90s. We’ll talk about that later. There’s, is there anything in between? How can we as small business owners who don’t have these giant budgets, but do compete in an online world? How do we compete in the mobile app space?
Daniel Hafner
Yeah, it’s very good question. Thank you for having me on Scott. I really appreciate this is really cool show to be on. So there are, you know, You ever hear the saying, there’s an app for that? You know, when you think about specific use cases, there’s a big realm of that middle space you talked about, where there’s specific use cases, there’s something that’s, you know, like a PDF generator, a flashlight tool, right? You almost think about different types of applications that can be used as a tool, type of app like that, like a flashlight, encyclopedia, something like that. And then there’s reference right or informational things, where you think about dictionaries, you think about even like your chatgpt, type of apps, things that are actually used as resources, which can be really, really useful for a lot of different businesses, a lot of different reasons, right? So even leveraging things like that, which have specific use cases, and I know I’m keeping this very broad, but those are also very, very useful ways to capitalize on that app.
Scott Ritzheimer
Love that. I love that now kind of zooming into your typical maybe it’s B to B, maybe it’s B to C, but you’re kind of bread and butter, founder, entrepreneur, if you will, running a small business. What would be, what would be some of the most surprising signs for them or symptoms that our listeners may be experiencing that indicate that they could benefit from a mobile app, even a no code mobile app for their business.
Daniel Hafner
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, because there’s, I’ve interviewed a lot of people on my show as well, and there’s a lot of different opinions around this. Some people say you shouldn’t even think about doing mobile until you have a giant audience, giant channel of people to tap into. And some people say you should dive in right away. So there’s a big spectrum of beliefs on this. Personally, I think that you again, it depends industry specific, niche specific. It there’s a huge, huge market in the App Store, in the Apple App Store and Android stores, particularly if you have a B to C type of platform. So let’s talk about that first. So if you have a B to C, a user specific application, I mean, you can, there’s a, I think there’s. The latest stat I saw was there’s almost a half a billion downloads of apps per day on the app stores. I mean, that’s, that’s an incredible amount of traffic that you can tap into. Now, like you said, there’s kind of the zombie applications that are towards the bottom of the list, and then there’s your high your high level ones, and that just comes down to optimizing and targeting the right keywords and the right things and the right use cases for those types of things. But I remember the very first running and fitness app that I built for myself. It was zero traffic, zero traffic, zero traffic, and then all of a sudden it went up to hundreds of downloads per day, like almost overnight. And that came through optimism, optimizing certain marketing. That was free leads. That was free marketing. I mean, it’s not free. You have to pay $100 to be on the App Store, but you get what I’m saying, right? So in that case, I mean, you could start right out of the gate, and you can have something, if it’s proven, if you know that, hey, this use case is going to be, you know, I’m just adapting an existing app, or I’m providing a new service or providing a new thing, there’s really nothing stopping you from going right away. Now, the b to b type of space that’s a little bit different, I think, you know, especially when it comes to. You might not even need a mobile app in that particular use case, but you know, even you mentioned no code, there’s different things you can provide for B to B software tools, whether it’s, you know, inside of no code or like a laptop, tablet type of application. And if there’s use cases and potential revenue right there, there’s nothing stopping you from from launching into that space as well. So that’s that’s kind of my breakdown between it’s different between B to C and B to B.
Scott Ritzheimer
Sure got it. Got it. Now, we’ve mentioned this phrase a couple of times, but just to make sure everyone here, including our listeners, are on the same page. What does no code mean? And why does it matter for a busy entrepreneur listening today?
Daniel Hafner
Yeah, it’s good question. So when you say the word no code, basically everyone kind of knows what coding is, right? You have your your HTML languages, you probably people maybe heard of Python react, like all these weird kind of languages that you know kind of come up with. That problem is that nobody really knows how to do that unless you went to school for it, or you took the time to actually learn it. You know, busy people like me and you like we probably didn’t learn to code. And if you did, you don’t need to worry about building things, because you know how to build them from coding scratch, right? So when you come to the word no code, a common misconception is that, hey, this application is built without code. And that’s really not the case. The code is underlying, and it’s still there, and it’s just you don’t have to deal with it, you don’t have to see it. So a lot of times, I compare it to almost like people are usually familiar with something like a GoDaddy or a Wix or WordPress type of builder where you have widgets, you have drag and drop, point and click type of things. So for you as the business owner, as the tech person that’s building this thing, you can build stuff without having to code. So that’s what we mean when we say no code is there’s no code that you have to deal with. Is really what it means. And the revolutionary thing that really like clicked in my mind with this. When I was building my very first thing was that it the speed to market was so much faster because I didn’t have to go to a developer or an expensive agency to have something custom coded, and then once I had it, then I have to figure out how to change it. It’s expensive. From there, I don’t know how to change that type of stuff. So with these types of no code tools, you yourself are in control. It’s democratize this. You can go in and make changes. Oh, I don’t like this color. I want to change this color. I want to add this new feature. Go add that new feature. So it really puts you in the driver’s seat, which in, you know, in this world of business, you got to move fast. You got to get to capitalize. You got to go. And you don’t have time to be waiting on other people to do stuff for you. So, yeah, that’s one of the big advantages I think.
Scott Ritzheimer
There’s folks listening like, Dan, where were you? Like, 10 years ago? What is what’s going on? Because anyone who’s done anything that required code knows the just the sheer agony of, like, seeing something right there on the screen and it’s just a word spelled wrong, and how do I fix it? Well, that’ll be two weeks before we can add it to our development sprint. It’s like, what? And in the world for entrepreneurs, like two weeks is an eternity, right? It’s a lifetime. And so the accessibility of that is phenomenal, and it really does particularly in the fast paced, moving world of entrepreneurism. It’s a huge game changer. What being on the front edge of this working now in a burgeoning space? What would you say? Give us a couple of examples. What are the kind of results or functionality that some of your clients have been able to achieve with a no code mobile app.
Daniel Hafner
Yeah, there’s a really good one. I was actually working on the project this morning, actually, so it’s a very, very good one. So we have this new, newish client that is moving into the the space spaces on colleges with fraternities and sororities, and they’re basically providing a streamlined meal demand service. So every frat and sorority is able to see the menu for that particular house for that particular week, and they can even request, you know, like, Hey, I’m going to be late. I have class on Tuesday, and until 130 I need a late plate request. So basically, what we did was we built this cross platform application for them that’s both a no code mobile app, but also a software like a laptop, you know, web application. And it’s been really, really amazing to see this happen in real time as the semesters kicked off, because they’re, they’re having real, you know, college users use this on their phone, and they have, they they have feedback that they’re giving like, hey, we missed this feature. Hey, this isn’t quite working, right. But then in the in the other portal, the the users, the chefs, the admin people, are using this application and noticing, hey, I wish it did this. I wish it did this. This is actually missing. What can we? Can we change this a little bit? Do. So it’s almost like every week we kind of get this batch of new things, like, Hey, this is seems to be broken, or hey, this is, we wish this would be better. And we’ve been able to make these changes with them in like a 24 to 48 hour turnaround time. And it has allowed them that has actually directly, he told me the other day, it actually directly contributed to him being able to demo this platform and gain new clients faster, because, like, Hey, look at all these new improvements we were able to do with it just in the past couple of months. This is what it does, how it works. We’re constantly improving this thing so and he’s actually able to go in and do some of the changes himself, the technical lead on the project. And then there’s also things that I go in and do, and my team and we go in and fix, and things like that as well, too. Yeah. So it’s almost like this team effort where we built the thing, we stood it up. But then from there, you know, software’s never really done. There’s always different. You know, Facebook looks completely different. LinkedIn looks completely different than I did when it originally launched. So you iteratively change these things and improve these things and lead to a better product and a better experience for the customers and their customers. So that’s been my one of my favorite examples. I’ve just seen it kind of unfold recently. It’s at the top of my mind. So that’s been wrestling.
Scott Ritzheimer
Love that it brings me, actually, it’s like we’re sharing notes here. It brings me to my next question, and that is, I’ve been on development projects which, like, you work and work and work, and it’s just, like, you just get the thing across the finish line and and then that’s it, right? It’s kind of on to the next thing. And there’s almost this, like, if you build it, they will come mentality built in, you’re right. And those haven’t gone very well. So what do you what you what should an entrepreneur expect to do once their app is live?
Daniel Hafner
Well, it starts before it’s live, right? There’s, there’s a lot of things you can see with again, this kind of comes down to two buckets. There’s the the types of software apps that you’re trying to promote and sell out there, as you know, to as many people as possible. And then some of these tend to even just be internal applications where there might only be a handful of people, like 20 to 50 people using this application for a specific purpose. So those almost require different things. Now for you, if you’re going out there and launching this and wanting to sell this to as many people as possible, it starts way before it’s live, right? You need to put together some kind of marketing, advertising plan, promotional plan, that’s really on you to figure out. Now, we can help with that, and we do that, you know, because we’re more than just developers, right? But there’s a feedback loop. There’s a user feedback loop. That’s like, you said, you don’t want to. They call it being stale, right? It’s a stale product. It’s like, Hey, this looks exactly the same as when I first used it a year ago. That doesn’t tend to, like, actually drive people to come back and be interested and engaged in things. So there’s always a roadmap you want to have. You want to build out something like, Okay, I would love to have this new feature down the road, and you send target dates for that. And like, Okay, I love in three months, I’d love to have this new thing rolled out, or in six months, I wanted to do this so that can really be done both before you go live and after you go live, because you need feedback. You don’t just want to build things, just to build them. You need, like, this project I just talked about, people are actually saying, like, hey, this would be useful. I need, I need this feature. Then you build that feature, and then that goes up in satisfaction. You know, you don’t just build things to build things, so definitely stuff to do before and after you launch.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah? So good. So Dan, there’s a question I like to ask all my guests. I’m gonna fire it your way here as well. And that is, what is the biggest secret you wish wasn’t a secret at all. What’s that one thing that you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Daniel Hafner
I mean, I could get into all the, you know, the government conspiracy things that I wish people knew. You know, those, those kind of secrets that I wish we all knew are aliens real I don’t know. No, I think in terms of this conversation, I I wish more people knew just what you could do with no code and like how you could I still think it’s it’s a relatively undervalued and underappreciated thing, and that’s why I love to come on these things, because it really does democratize a lot of things, because you don’t have to pay half a million dollars for A enterprise level application anymore, you can. You don’t have to. I really wish that that that secret was more well known, because it just it really enables people to move faster and do things better, and, you know, make the impact that they want to make sooner.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah. So true. It’s it. We’re just on the very beginning parts of what I believe is going to be possible in the space. And love the way that you’re being able to help entrepreneurs get in front of it and and really take advantage of the technologies that are available to us. Fascinating, fascinating space. Dan, there’s some folks listening. They didn’t think that you know that a mobile app was anywhere. Near their future, but they’re realizing it might be a whole lot more accessible than they think. How can they how can they get in touch with you? How can they learn more about the work and technologies that you guys provide?
Daniel Hafner
Yeah, so I would just point you to our site. It’s called dappernocode.com, excuse me, we have a lot of tools and resources there. Kind of list all the different things that we do, we even have a very cool calculator tool which will spit out an exact number, and it’ll say, Hey, your project will cost whatever amount of money. So you can even play around with that and see you can submit that as many times as you want. So a lot of cool resources, a lot of cool things. And we can do, you know, consultations and everything there. So yeah, just go to dappernocode.com and check it out.
Scott Ritzheimer
Brilliant, brilliant. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being on the show today. Dan, just an honor having you here today. Love what you guys are doing there at dapper and can’t wait to see what’s next. For those of you watching listening, you know that your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and cannot wait to see you next time take care.
Contact Daniel Hafner
Daniel Hafner is the founder and creative behind Dapper Mobile Apps, a no-code app & software development firm. Launched in 2020 amidst a time of global upheaval, he carved a unique path in the tech landscape by making app development accessible to everyone through innovative no-code solutions. Known for his independent thinking and a refreshing take on technology and media, he successfully led Dapper Mobile Apps to emerge as a guiding light for entrepreneurs and businesses eager to dive into the digital realm without the conventional coding hurdles.
Want to learn more about Daniel Hafner’s work at Dapper Mobile Apps or find out how little your app will actually cost? Check out his website at https://dappernocode.com/
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