In this legacy-leaving episode, Adam Zuckerman, Founder of Buried in Work, shares how he became a cross-disciplinary generalist with a track record of success creating and leading initiatives at Fortune 500 companies and startups for over twenty years.
You will discover:
– The unique benefits only founders get from estate planning.
– How most founders get their estate planning wrong
– A simple exercise you can use to create enormous clarity to your exit strategy.
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the secrets of the high demand coach podcast. And here with us today is Adam Zuckerman. He’s the founder of buried in work, which provides resources and services to simplify Estate Planning Organization end of life tasks and estate transitions for consumers and businesses. He’s an attorney and MBA, an Eisenhower Fellow with a diverse background in finance, media, consumer packaged goods and clean energy. Adam’s personal experiences and professional expertise make him a visionary and transforming how we think about securing our legacies. Adam so excited to have you on the show. One of the big kind of points of my book is helping founders to walk to the seventh stage of their journey where legacy really is the name of the game, and it’s it’s not something that everybody can get to, but there’s something really, really special when you can what is it about founders and their legacies that has really drawn you to this space?
Adam Zuckerman
Yeah, it’s a good question. I appreciate you having me on today. Scott, so the reality is, is that most entrepreneurs and individuals who start businesses have that, a type mentality that really want to make a difference in the world. They want to leave, leave their their legacy, as you say, for those behind them, and create. And the reality is, is that in the event something were to happen to them, the question then goes to what happens to the business? What happens to the individuals that they touch? And as individuals scale their companies, they have more customers, they have more clients. And as any entrepreneur knows the the fact that people say, start a business. So I don’t have any bosses anymore. Just false. Your bosses now, your customers, your clients, your employees, everybody else hiding on you. And the trick is, is that if you really want to be successful, you want to have an ongoing concern, you want your business to survive in the event that something happens to you. And that goes directly to the value of estate planning.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, and I love that you open this way, because my first question, it just gives me a perfect segue into that big question here, What happens if something happens to you right? Particularly, what happens to your business? What are some of the other key questions that a great estate plan or estate planning process will answer?
Adam Zuckerman
There’s two buckets to it. So the first one is getting your estate in order. And typically, when people talk about estate plans, they think that is the transfer of your assets after you pass away. But the reality is, is that if you have a comprehensive estate plan, it is so much more than that. It’s what happens from the point where you’re incapacitated, if you go to the hospital after transition to nursing homes, positioning yourself so your family, your loved ones, or heirs, whoever has to step in, has all of the information that they need to be able to step in and handle your affairs efficiently. Yes. Now for some people, they think it’s just a will. Other people may think it’s trust as well, but there are so many more steps that you need to take to make sure that you have that comprehensive estate plan. And we can get into those, individual documents, if you want. But for a business owner, there’s this entirely different bucket of complexity, and it’s unbelievably important that that’s focused on. Because if you look at the individual’s estate in America right now, when you pass away, on average, it takes 570 hours to settle that estate. And when you start layering on complexities from businesses, that number only goes up.
Scott Ritzheimer
Wow. I want to dive into this in particular because estate planning is a huge, massive world. There’s so many different nuances and ways we can go with it, but particularly for our audience, business owners, founders, CEOs, leaders, particularly for the founders and owners. Where do you find them getting estate planning wrong?
Adam Zuckerman
So many people just don’t even start. And the reality is, is that entrepreneurs think that they’re going to live forever. They don’t take the time to set the agreements, because they can always focus on something later. So when it comes to entrepreneurship, we’ll know that that entrepreneur is most valuable asset. It’s not money, it’s not inventory, it’s not customers, rather, it’s time. And it takes time to get your estate plan in order, and that’s really the starting point, is making the time to figure out what your business needs. So in the event that something were to happen to you, the business can keep going forward. Right now, the first step is organizing all of your personal information, because if you don’t have the personal information organized, you’re you’re not going to be able to get the stuff for the business done. As you scale your business, everything rests on what type of business you have and what your business structure is. So it’s a very different estate plan, succession plan if you are a sole proprietor in a lifestyle business than if you’re a company that is moving towards IPO and has shareholders and multiple entities. So it’s get your information in order as an individual first and then based on your structure or your sole proprietor. Leadership. Are you an LLC? Are you an S corp? Are you a C Corp? That’s when you can start bringing the foundational elements for succession planning and working to the proper outcome from there.
Scott Ritzheimer
And so I want to dial this in, maybe not by industry, but kind of a category of a little bit of a space in between. So not necessarily the solo lifestyle practitioner, not necessarily the big will be or already is publicly traded company, but that kind of middle ground of a relatively large eight figure business that the founder wants the family to continue to own it. Let’s put it that way, in that kind of a context, and the reason I say own it is because most founders will say, hey, I want my family to own the business. They’ll say, I want my kids to run the business. How common is that in the real world where? Where the next generation of family members really does make the best opportunity for leadership within your the business?
Adam Zuckerman
It’s a great question, and it depends on whether or not those individuals were involved in the business from the get go or involved in the business at the time that it needs to be transferred. Now it it makes sense to say, Hey, I’ve started a business. I’d like my my relatives, my son, my daughter, my cousin, whoever to take over the company. But the reality is, is that if they haven’t been involved with the company and understanding what needs to happen for a transition, and are in a position where they want to even take over the company, saying that it goes to them, can actually cause more problems. So you have to decide capabilities and interest versus the legal side. So you can have the company ownership, go to them, but you can have the operational matters go to someone else, right? And what happens, though, is that most companies, as they scale it, they’re beyond that lifestyle business. They have multiple shareholders, they have multiple business centers, multiple entities that have supported that business. And the reality is, is that those entities and those individuals and those companies may be better positioned to take over the company in the event that it needs to be transitioned. And the example of when that happens, let’s say you and I start a company together. You have 50% I have 50% if you pass away, and your heirs are the ones who would then inherit your side of the business. That means I’m now no longer in business with you. I’m in business with your wife, with your children, with your cousin, and that might not be something that I as a business owner wanted, because they may have a completely different persona than you. They may have a completely different outlook and capability set for running the business. And that’s not necessarily to me your bear, to me your business partner, and that’s why you want to work with an individual or service provider that can help you figure out what these eventualities are that are based on your company type, the size of your company, revenue. And you can look at agreements like a Buy Sell agreement that says, in the event that something were to happen to you, I have a right of first refusal at x specific steps to purchase your side of the business, and I get to take it over, and your heirs are compensated for that, for that transfer.
Scott Ritzheimer
Right. It’s so important. And I think the crux of this and and my next question here is this, this idea that we have to separate ownership from leadership, which is really hard for founders, because they’ve not really ever known any other way, right? They were the owner and the leader the whole time, and it’s not always easy for founder led organizations, because they’re used to the founder and leader being the same thing. What are some steps that that either the founder or the organization as a whole can take to start to separate those two things so they can really think about them as leadership and ownership independently.
Adam Zuckerman
Again, you need to figure out first, what the business is and what the objectives are. And to do that, there’s a summary sheet that you can fill out that says, in the event something were to happen to me, these are the key things that need to be addressed. So here are the location of the documents for articles incorporation. Here are the attorneys, if you use them, that help me create my documents. Here are my key customers that are going to be impacted. Here are my key clients that need to be notified. Here are the key employees that need to be in the room. And that’ll just help you think through the process. And this is besides the legal point of what happens to the actual business itself in the event something were to happen, right? A lot of people think, oh, estate planning, this is only after you pass away. But what if you get hit by a bus and you’re huh? You’re in a hospital for three months? How does the company move forward and continue? And that’s what estate planning is. It’s addressing all of the eventualities of what might happen, and then once you have that base list of information of this is who’s going to be impacted. This is who needs to be contacted. This is who helped me. Then you start figuring out, okay, scenario. One, I am missing for a month, and you can put your head or your hat on of I’m going on an extended vacation, what happens to the company while you’re gone? Two, I’m gone for six months. Two, I’m gone for one year. Two, I’m gone for three years, and then I’m not involved at all. And along each of those steps you have your decision tree that goes I’d like to keep the business. I don’t want to keep the business. I’d like to be involved. I don’t want to be involved. And who on your team or external needs to be brought in in the event that that happens. And that’s the thing. Estate planning for businesses is very complicated, but it is unbelievably important, because in the event something happens to you, you’re not the only person that gets impacted any longer.
Scott Ritzheimer
Right, right. One of the challenges that I found, particularly for the types of people who tend to become successful founders, is that they’re far less motivated by preventing bad things from happening and far more motivated by making good things happen. So not to downplay the necessity of all of those things, but is there a character too? Are there a couple kind of silver linings in this for opportunities maybe that founders and business owners have in the Exit Planning, succession estate planning process that maybe are tools that others don’t have access to.
Adam Zuckerman
Yeah, I think that the depending on the steps that you take, it can create a better workplace for everybody, because it eliminates the the unknowns of what might happen if you have key man insurance, because there’s one person that’s in charge of the company, and something happens to them. You may be compensated from the insurance policy, but still, what happens to the rest of the rest of the employees and showing them that it is not just me. We’re in this for the long haul. We want you to be successful. This is a place for you to stay for a long time. Can reduce employee exits in the company and actually improve your recruiting process. When you start going through your own estate plan procedure, oftentimes companies then say, Wait a minute. It’s not just for me. I should then offer or help or assist in some capacity my employees to get their estate plans in order as well. And again, that’s an HR benefit that has many, many side effects and benefits. It’s a lot better than buying people $50 or giving them a $50 shoe replacement budget or transit or gym membership. And it also makes it so in the event that you wanted to exit your company at a later point in time, whether it be to a sale or acquisition, something else, those companies are going to view you as a more organized company and is going to help you have all of your books and accounts and information in order, and even identify ways that can help you get more organized. So maybe you’re looking at trust and estate vehicles. Maybe you’re looking at designating successors properly. Maybe you’re looking at the estate equalization for your heirs, of what happens who inherits. But all of these things together will not only give you peace of mind, but will help you grow your business more effectively down the road.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s, it’s so true. It’s, it’s so hard to wrap our mind around when we should really be doing the work on it, right? And and then becomes so poignant all at once. Which brings me to my question here, most folks that are found in the estate planning space, you ask them, when should they start? And it’s like, now, right? And that’s true, but there are different ways of engaging in the estate planning process. There’s one where it’s like, this is front and center. It is my first priority. And then there’s where it’s more of a complimentary function, right? I’m in growth mode. I’m scaling my business. I want to be focusing on kind of the minimum. I need to to do it effectively. How do you judge when those scales tip. When Should it become a primary function for a founder owner?
Adam Zuckerman
I don’t think it should ever be a primary function. I think it should be a function that is top of mind at different junctures in their business, growth in their factory. So it should be top of mind on an individual, on a family basis. As soon as you turn 18, you should have a will put in place, and your estate plan will evolve with you over time. And if you look at that evolution on an individual basis, and you draw a parallel to businesses, that evolution goes through the same steps. So in the beginning, you organize your information here, where all my key documents are, just have it on one piece of paper, two pieces of paper. These are the individuals that helped. This is what I want to have happen. And then as the business evolves, and you get to the point where, hey, this is actually going to be an ongoing concern, that’s when you start peeling off a little bit of your profits, a little bit of time to focus on putting in a actual succession plan and doing the work that needs to be done, you should not spend hours and hours and hours and hours developing an estate plan and a succession plan for a business if you don’t know the business is even going to be around in three years, right? The first thing you should do is get the business sustainable with a bit of information that if something were to happen to you, your family doesn’t have to go on a scavenger hunt to unravel everything. And then as it evolves, that’s when you start going through that process. So when you hit $100,000 in revenue, that’s a pretty good time to take a look and go, Hey, wait a minute. This is actually something that could actually scale. When you hit a half million dollars in revenue, you hit a million dollars in revenue. Yeah, and you know, when you hit a major benchmark in your company, when a patent gets granted based on a product deliverable that you’ve been working on for five years, but those are the types of things in the gateways that need to help you evaluate when it’s time to start engaging with someone. But the one thing that you can’t do is just do nothing ever, because you’re gonna find yourself in a pretty bad situation.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s so true, so true. I love that. I love that approach. Those milestones are so helpful. There’s a question Adam that I like to ask all my guests, I’m gonna ask of you here as well, and that is, what is the biggest secret that you wish wasn’t a secret at all. What’s that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?
Adam Zuckerman
You and your business have an estate plan, whether you know it or not, if you die without a will, if you die without having a plan in place for your company, the state that you live in has laws on the books that are going to dictate what happens to you and your state. It’s called Dying into state. So if you don’t want the government, you don’t want someone else to decide what happens to your possessions, what happens to your business when you’re gone, it’s probably best for you to get on top of it.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, so true. So true. Love that point. Because, yes, it’s not that you just can’t do nothing. There’s somebody who will do something for you, and you get to decide if it’s you or if it’s the government. That’s gonna be pretty compelling for most founders. Adam, there’s folks listening to this, and they’ve had a couple of like, oh, shoot moments, right? Well, we’ll say it nicely, but they’ve also seen like, hey, this doesn’t have to be all consuming. This doesn’t have to crush me and my soul and everything in between. There’s really some steps forward that I can make here, and I know that Adam can help. How can they reach out to you? How can they find more out about the work that you do?,
Adam Zuckerman
Yeah really easy. Come to the website. It’s buriedinwork.com. You can email me personally at adam@buriedonwork. We’d love to help you on your personal side. We’d love to help you on your business side. We’ve got HR employee benefits packages that we work with, with white labeled powered bread, Berry and work. And we also have relationships with a bunch of different companies that are on the business succession side of things. So if we can help you, we can push you over to somebody that can but the reality is, is that we want to help you, and we want you to get organized. So come find us, and we’re here to help right?
Scott Ritzheimer
Brilliant Adam, thanks so much for being on the show. Just a privilege having you on here today, for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
Contact Adam Zuckerman
Adam Zuckerman is the Founder of Buried in Work, which provides resources and services to simplify estate planning/organization, end-of-life tasks, and estate transitions for consumers and businesses. He’s an attorney, MBA, and Eisenhower Fellow with a diverse background in finance, media, consumer package goods, and clean energy. Adam’s personal experiences and professional expertise make him a visionary in transforming how we think about securing our legacies.
Want to learn more about Adam Zuckerman’s work at Buried in Work? Check out his website at https://buriedinwork.com/
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