In this introspectove episode, Evan Tzivanakis, owner of Executive Coach Asia, shares his effective methods in helping professionals develop the skills they need to succeed in their chosen endeavors.
You will learn:
– How to become a better leader
– How to lead a virtual team
– How to connect with productive but disengaged employees so they don’t quit
Episode Transcript
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again to the secrets of the high demand coach and I’m here with yet another high demand coach and that is Evan Tzivanakis. He’s an award winning accredited executive coach. He’s a leadership development specialist. He’s a management consultant. He’s an online visiting lecturer at the EU Business School in Switzerland. In other words, he really knows his stuff. Now, he’s also the owner of executive coach Asia and specializes in helping professionals to develop the skills and strategies that they need to succeed. With a wealth of experience managing more than 500 employees across eight different countries and leading companies to expand across the Asia Pacific region. He is well equipped to help his clients navigate their professional journey. And he’s here to share with us today, Evan, I’m so excited to have you on the show. And I can’t wait to jump in and hear more about your book and what you do. But before we get there, I’d love to pause for a second and just hear your story. What were you doing before coaching and consulting? And how did you ultimately end up making the leap and why?
Evan Tzivanakis
Nice to be here with you, Scott, and thank you for the invitation. I’m excited as well. And I come from a practitioners background. So I was a manager. I was a CEO, I was a director. So my story is I went to school in Greece, as you probably understood from the surname, and then I started in Switzerland. My first trade was hospitality, business management. And then I worked in Switzerland for three years. And then I went to the UK. I did my masters one year because I had the experience before. And then once I graduated with an MBA from Leeds Metropolitan University in the UK, now it’s called Leeds Beckett, I worked for a company, I started in sales and got promoted to a team leader. And then after a year, I got promoted, and I became the branch managing director. And I was responsible for two offices around 75 employees, I was there for almost eight years, that was from 2004 to 2011, almost 12. So they I was really, you know, strategize and executed the expansion and all kinds of operational aspects of the company, including recruitment, sales, business development, customer service, human resources, and administration, I had a great team behind me daily training with, with the sales guys, you know, really intensive kind of environment, the training coaching, which was kind of it came natural, okay, it wasn’t part of my job, but I kind of I suppose, I always liked to work with people and develop people. So I did that for seven, almost eight years. And then I was headhunted I work. Then I jumped, I worked for the financial company, for six years, my last year, I was based out of Sydney, Australia. And in this company, I kind of directed the operations of the business within my assigned regions, established vision, mission strategy and annual targets, and then manage sales leadership of our round. At the time, you know, when I, when I left, I was around 300 personnel across six regional offices. And then I decided to become a coach. Because of that experience, because I believe that then, you know, I went to different companies. And I realized that, you know, it’s all about people at the end of the day, and you could have as a company, you could have a great product. But if internally, you’re, you don’t have the right culture, if your culture is toxic, I think you will struggle to scale, because you will have a lot of internal motivational issues. And I’ve also seen companies which the product is a bit average, mediocre, but the kind of scale and the scale fast because internally, they know how to manage people. And I went into coaching, I went to training, that’s number one. So I kind of went from a practitioners point of view. And actually my wife also played a role because we’re thinking what to do. And then she said, as I think it, she said to me, I think, you know, you have that experience, you’re good in talking, why didn’t you the first thing why did why did you become a speaker or a coach or a trainer, and then that’s how the idea was, you know, was kind of set it in, and that’s where it all started. And I’m doing it since 2017. Okay. And I’m excited. And you know, the last couple of years have been challenging because from our perspective, I shifted everything online. All my all my training and the learning and development and all my, you know, training and coaching. I think now now it’s like 95%, I do it online, which I actually now love it. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be doing that right me a year right now. Yeah, but But you know, for the first six months, two years ago, it was challenging.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, yeah wow. So I’d love to hear what would you say A now that you’re coaching now that you’re doing this consulting, you’re working with companies all over the world, what would you say some of the most important work that you’re doing at the moment?
Evan Tzivanakis
Well, look a lot of engagements lately. It is how do I become a better leader? How do I manage remote and hybrid teams? And how do I create a culture a high performing team a culture that can execute? So and what I, you know, what I like? What is my passion, I like to see when people develop, I like to see the transformation. And I think, you know, you have to think you have information and transformation, I like to work with my clients and help them to transform. Because if you really need information, you don’t need me, you have YouTube, you have this chart, GTP AI, but if you’re really looking for transport, the front track for transformation, a coach can really help. And a coach is there. And I’m not trying to sell you sell your coaching or sell coaching, but it’s true, it will keep you accountable. And I think this is one of the biggest benefits is in a coach to be there to keep you accountable, and to help you to support you, and to help you come through and to help you to help you succeed. Yeah. And sometimes in my coaching, yes, I have my framework and everything. But sometimes by coincidence, in some of the coaching sessions, I’m just there as a sounding board, letting my clients talk and bring out their frustrations and their challenges.
Scott Ritzheimer
I think that’s one of the more underestimated values of having a coach is that place to come and talk with somebody that’s not just like going and complaining, you know, because if you if you talk to your spouse, or you talk to your friends, it ends up just being like your negative side of the story. But there’s a there’s this, you know, this phrase is overused, but there’s a safe place for you to go and process through information. And when you have a good coach to also be called out on your crap, you know, whenever like, when you’re wrong, having someone be able to say, Have you thought about, you know, it’s like, Oh, my goodness, I’ve never thought of it that way. So otherwise, you just find people who will justify the way you’re feeling. And it’s really not helpful when you talk about a toxic culture. It’s one of the ways that a toxic culture comes from the outside in. So I love that you brought that up. One of the things that you said is something that I think is just top of mind for a lot of people right now. And that’s particularly how do you manage remote and virtual employees? And again, you’ve had to make this transition in your own business, you’re helping others do it. What would you say are some of the ways that that challenge is showing up now? Because it’s changed a lot over the course of the COVID pandemic? So let’s start that how is it? What What’s that showing up like now?
Evan Tzivanakis
It’s getting better. But they I think the key word here is trust. Like, this is really what goes through managers, C level executives, when it comes to remote and hybrid work. Do I really trust them to work from home when they’re working from home? So the question is, are they really working when they’re working from home? So because there is no, because in a remote in a work setting, or in a hybrid work setting, there is no management by working about? So how do you make sure that your people are productive, engaged at the same time while they are working from home. And the key here is, you know, you could have an engaged employee that is not productive. And then on the opposite side, you could have a productive employee that is not engaged. So the approach that you should take as a manager is totally different. So trust, I think trust is the biggest thing here. And the worst thing that you can do as a manager, as a C level executive, as somebody who is managing people, is not to trust you’re not to not trust your people, but the worst thing that you can do is to show them you don’t trust them. Because the minute you show someone you don’t trust them is like a personal relationship. The minute you show someone you don’t trust them, I think you kind of lost the game.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good. I’ve got like 1000 questions. I’m trying to pick the right one. So you made this statement that you can have an engaged employees not productive, productive employee that’s not engaged. And for a lot of folks, I know that engagement is basically happy productivity, right? It’s managerial code for we want you to get a bunch of stuff done and not complain, you know. And so, that’s the most neg kind of connotation on it. But that’s happening behind the scenes and under the surface sometimes. So, talk to me slice and dice that a little bit. What does an engaged but non productive employee look like? And how is that different from one that is productive and not engaged?
Evan Tzivanakis
I like what you said, you know, get the job done without complaining. That’s the idea of war. But we are dealing with people and it’s a challenge, right? So okay, well, I mean, you could have an in Okay, can you imagine you, I think we all we all had an employee who is engaged, what we mean by engaged, they love to work with you, they love their company, they love the industry, but they’re not productive, maybe they’re not closing sales, or whatever they are the tasks off. So it means they need training, they need on the job training, training, such shadowing, learning new techniques, I don’t know, whatever negotiation skills, whatever. So then the training, because they are if they are engaged, it means their heart is in it. And on the opposite side, you might have this kind of employee who is they’re really productive, you know, the perfect they always on time, they always are in the meetings, they do the job, clock, a clock out on time, they never lay, but they’re not engaged. And they might resign tomorrow, and you’re like, wow, what happened? Where did that come from? You know, these kinds of employers are required. Like, they do everything, they still professional, do everything, right? Because they don’t want to give you a don’t give you a right to say anything against them. But sometime all of a sudden, they just resign, because they’re not engaged. And they look, there are some employees that in whatever you do, they will just be not engaged. But maybe, you know, maybe you fail to sit down and ask them Hey, Scott, how is your week? How’s your week has been? You know, how is life? What are you struggling with? What did you enjoy the most this week? What do you enjoy the least? How can I support? You know, how’s your one on a wife, girlfriend, partner, boyfriend, whatever, when you go home, and you’re a bit late couple of days? You know what I mean? Like? Yeah, I think you need to get to know your people. So it doesn’t matter. You know, you might you might listen to this podcast, now you have a new business, and you only have three to five people, I think is the same applies if you’re managing five people or 500 people, the more you know about your people, the more you can, the better you can manage them, I think.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. So how do you how do you spend managerial fatigue, you know, by many measures is kind of an all time high, right? Just leadership burnout across the board, people are just tired. And it’s probably not going anywhere anytime soon. So for that that manager is sitting there saying like, I’m burning the candle at both ends, I’m exhausted. Now you’re telling me you want to talk about something has nothing to do with work? Right? Yeah. So what would you say to someone who’s who’s in that place? That doesn’t feel like they have time to do that?
Evan Tzivanakis
Yeah, we always talk about managers, managers, managers, as well is, at the end of the day, they are also humans. So it’s not easy. And I think if you like to being a manager, if you like to work with people, you will find it easier during this, you know, you see my book during this VUCA times. But if you are struggling, what I would suggest you do you really you take a whole you take a week off. Because you know what I mean? Like really, because it’s not like sometimes we say do these dudes or do this. But sometimes you just need to be in a different environment and be surrounded by different people for a week, just completely off. But I mean, completely offline, not checking your emails, not working one hour every day, like completely off and do the thing you like to do. Like for me, for example, I like to exercise daily. For like 45 minutes, I like to pump some iron to work a little bit just to bring it it really relaxes me and then I go home, I take a shower and the moment I come out of the shower feel fresh. I’m ready to go. Some other people maybe you can take a nap, you know the Spanish siesta. It’s a good thing in the afternoon, you’re kind of recharging yourself. Maybe you can watch whatever motivates you. I mean, I don’t know maybe you’d like to play chess, or I don’t know. So but do the things you like to do a little bit every day. And if you really feel you can go home or just take a week off or something and go on holiday and be in a totally different environment. Changing your environment will change your thoughts. Because look, there is okay, whatever I say, behind the screen, you need to do these you need to do that. It’s easier said than done. I understand. But really, you need this and that’s where Scott I think self awareness comes into place. You really need to understand and to know yourself and to enter and to speak up. You know, go to your direct supervisor, go to your manager and say listen, this is what I’m doing. pasting. Don’t Don’t don’t keep it.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. So good. So good. So there’s another question I have for you here. And that is, it’s, you know, my favorite of the show, it’s where we get the name of the show. This is the creme de la creme. So tell me this, what would you say? Is the biggest secret that you wish wasn’t a secret at all? What’s that one thing that you wish every leader, manager or CEO founder that’s listening today knew?
Evan Tzivanakis
The biggest secret? Wow, that’s a that’s a difficult question you should have, you should have sent that to me earlier, I think is to be honest with yourself, to know what I mean, like to be honest with yourself, because lately, they have been, you know, you go on LinkedIn, I’m quite active there and think you are as well you, you see all these posts about how to manage what managers should do remote or for the week, but at the end of the day, we cannot forget that business owners, managers, C suites are also human. And they have been under tremendous pressure over the last couple of years, especially these middle managers, I call them the sandwich managers, the ones that they need to keep stakeholder you know, keep shareholders happy, or their boss happy. And at the same time, they need to keep the people below them engaged and productive. So being a middle manager nowadays, is not easy. So I think is the biggest secret is, you know, it’s not a secret is to be honest to yourself, to know yourself, to take the time off if you need and to ask for help if you really need and, again, I know it’s not it’s easier said than done. But, you know, take take that step forward to help yourself. Because sometimes if you’re a manager, nobody’s there to help you. You have pressure from both sides.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely a unique challenge being in a place. And one of the things that I’ve found, I call it the back door theory, right. And that is if you go into any restaurant, most of the employees come through the back door, but all the the customers come in through the front door. And if you’re not careful, you’ll only ever see the restaurant from the backside, from your perspective, but your customers are all doing it from the front side. And, and I think it’s so common for us, you know, frontline workers are mad at management, you know, because they see the front door. Top level leaders are mad at management because they see the back door, right? And no one recognizes, Hey, there’s this perspective that’s trying to hang on to both of these worlds and both of these realities at the same time. So I love that you highlight that because it’s, it’s helpful for us to kind of take a pause for a second, just say, hey, what does the world look like from their perspective? You know, and you know, just highlighting the humanity of that middle management layer. And they’re real people, real needs and real desires, I think cannot be said enough. All right.
So what I’d like to do another question for you. And then I want to hear a little bit about your book. And you can explain the view ca acronym for those of us who don’t know it. But before we get there, I want you to take off your coach, consultant hat, put on your CEO hat and talk to us a little bit about what it looks like the next stage of growth for you as a leader and for your business.
Evan Tzivanakis
I want to support more people. And I want to support companies and people I have a few assignments with different companies to develop their learning and development department to engage people. And I see a lot of need right now to IT companies and tech companies. Because I don’t know but the tech the tech guys, the IT guys, I think they have a different way of thinking maybe they think more one plus one equals two. So I think there is a there is a demand there. And it’s a great is a great environment to work with. And I want to support as many as many people as possible in 2023. And what was the other question?
Scott Ritzheimer
What challenges do you think you’ll have to overcome to get there?
Evan Tzivanakis
I think everyone the biggest challenge is to be adaptable. I think adaptability is a is a trait that we need we all need to have over the next few years are like to be able to adapt to think fast on your feet, to seem to think fast and easy. And then to take action to be adaptable. I give an example. One of my clients, one of my previous clients last year from the US actually an IT company. What he did in the middle of the pandemic, the schools were closed. So, due to the nature of his work, they are in it a lot of his staff cannot work from home they need to be in the factory it, okay, they need to assemble staff design, and so on. Now, what he did it transformed due to the fact that the schools was closed, he thought he had transformed his biggest conference room into a classroom. He hired a retired teacher. Then he, they employees that had kids, school kids, and the fact that they were closed, the school were closed, they welcome the kids stay, they cannot stay home alone, I need to go to work. So you understand what he did. So the parents will go to work, and they will bring their kids with them to attend, for free to attend school at breakfast and lunch, in the same environment, so the parents don’t have to worry, and the kids are safe. So wow, we know that sometimes a lot of coaches will learn a lot from our clients how to do things. So that’s an example of sitting down. Okay, what is the situation? What is the challenge that my employees will face? How do I solve it? And sometimes you have to think yes, okay, look, you need to look, you need to think short term, you need to you need to manage your finances. I understand that. But sometimes you need to also to think long term, he didn’t think okay, so he hired the teacher, he paid from his own pocket, breakfast, and lunch was provided, he bought all the equipment. And for three months, his employees had nothing to worry about. How cool was that? And then he told me everyone get on Evan, my email is full of CVS, he developed that that helped him locally for his company, reputation and brand name. You say people want to come and work here.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s fantastic. Oh, what a great story. So tell us a little bit, you’ve got a book that at the time of this recording is coming out by the time we air, it will have been out for a few weeks. But tell us a little bit about, you know, the book, what VUCA means and and where folks can find it. It will be
Evan Tzivanakis
published next week, first week of March, that’s the plan we are putting the final touches together. The VUCA means volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous. And I think those four words will stay with us for the years to come. Because the world of work is changing a lot. Because expectations both from employers and employees is changing. So leading in VUCA times is a book that I wrote in the middle of the pandemic. And I it’s it’s 40 smaller chapters, the whole book is around 250 200 and I think when it will be finalized will be around 270 pages. And I share personal stories about management, leadership, all the mistakes I made. You know, I think isn’t chapter seven, the minute when I was in the UK that I lost 50% of my staff, because I was coming across as too arrogant, too aggressive, it was all about me the lessons I learned how I read how I bounced back and all that. And it just personal stories, some stories of some of my clients as well and recommendations and suggestions on how to not only manage better, but at the end of the day, as a manager feel less stressed. And this coming out and it’s gonna be in all of the major online publishing on Amazon and all that. So it’s gonna come out I think in around seven weeks time. And once it’s published, I will self promote myself and the book on LinkedIn, I’m gonna put the link there on my profile and for the people that they wish to, to take a copy of will be a paperback as well as online.
Scott Ritzheimer
Fantastic, fantastic. Alright, so I know some folks have been listening. And they’re like, yes, like I’m managing and, you know, feeling the burnout. I’m feeling the pressure of keeping everyone moving the same direction. I’ve got to manage all these remote folks, but you know, and they’re saying, Hey, how can I find more out about your work and connect with you? So how can Can folks do that? How can they find out more about you and your work?
Evan Tzivanakis
On LinkedIn, I’m quite active there. You can all also so if you type Evan Tzivanakis
will come up. You can connect me with me on LinkedIn, or drop me an email at [email protected]. We can connect. Have a chat and take it from there.
Scott Ritzheimer
I love it. I love it. Well, fascinating conversation Evans. So happy to have you on the show thank you for being here a truly appreciate it and for everyone listening your time and attention mean the world to us it was such an honor to have you and I cannot wait to see you next time take care.
Contact Evan Tzivanakis
Evan Tzivanakis is an Award Winning Accredited Executive Coach, Leadership Development Specialist, Management Consultant, and Online Visiting Lecturer at the EU Business School, in Switzerland. He is the owner of Executive Coach Asia, and specializes in helping professionals develop the skills and strategies they need to succeed. With a wealth of experience managing more than 500 employees across 8 countries and leading companies to expand across the Asia Pacific region, he is well-equipped to help his clients navigate their professional journey.
Want to learn more about Evan’s work at Executive Coach Asia? Check out his website at https://www.executivecoachasia.com/
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